ZED'ing in Europe

Hi all! Brand new to the forum, although I've lurked for a while.

My wife and I are going on a 2 week trip to Switzerland in the middle of July. Yes, I know that's the very worst time to go, but it's the only time my wife and I could get vacation at the same time. So the plan is to give ourselves a few days to get to ZRH, buy a crapload of passes (they're refundable, might as well...), and fly out of whichever US city has the most semi-open flights. However, this is my first time going transatlantic using ZED, so I have a few questions.

In a perfect world, I could buy one zone seven ZED pass for PDX-FRA on Lufthansa, and if the PDX-FRA flight wasn't looking good I could try SFO-FRA or LAX-FRA (both zone 7 routes) or even JFK-FRA (zone 5). In this perfect world, I could also use this ZED pass on LAX-ZRH on Swiss or LAX-LHR on AA, since they're medium-fare ZED carriers.

According to our pass bureau person, ZED is supposed to eventually function this way, but it's not there yet, with various airlines allowing various degrees of flexibility. My question is this: for which carriers is my "perfect world" scenario valid? Which airlines would accept a PDX-FRA pass when flying out of an airport other than PDX? Which would accept a ZED pass that had another carrier's code on it?

I suspect there is no definitive answer, but if anybody knows how their airline handles this, I'd appreciate the info. For that matter, I'd like to hear your own experience using ZED to get across the pond.

Vielen danke!

To be specific, carriers I'm looking at include AA, BA, KL, VS, LH, and LX (Virgin, Lufthansa, Swiss) although *any* ZED carrier that goes between the US & Europe is a possiblity.

Hi
I'd be careful with basing your choice of carrier and route solely on the ZED principle as its a concept that isn't as entrenched among European carriers as it is with N. American airlines. Speaking for LH, they'd also accept a ticket issued for PDX-FRA on the SFO or LAX to FRA route as theses cities are all on the west coast, so the ID ticket fares are all the same. Your best bet may be to have back up tickets for each alternative with the respective carrier endorsed on the ticket. Nonetheless as you're flying out of the USA, those European carriers, or moreso their staff, may be more in tune with the whole ZED process.

i would say your perfect world plan should work. as long as its all within the same mileage zone and the same zonalfareagreement it should be fine to go with an pdx-fra on an sfo-fra or sfo-lhr

Thanks both for the replies. Frapos, I actually am looking at carriers other than ZED, ie Northwest, Continental, etc. However, at my airline you can buy these passes on the spot, wheras you need to apply for ZED passes a week or two in advance, which is why I'm interested in figuring out in advance how ZED works in the "real world."

It sounds like both of you agree that different airports within the same mileage zone is OK. That's good to know. I guess the question that there's likely to be the most confusion on is whether I can fly LAX-LHR on BA or Virgin when I have a ZED ticket for LAX-LHR on AA. It sounds like OSflyer is saying "yes," but it'll all depend on how each airline's ticketing staff interpreted it.

Anybody else had experience with this?

When BA issue ZED tickets specifying a primary carrier they are additionally endorsed with a comment saying which other ZED carriers the ticket ( fare ) is valid on. Perhaps you should contact your Staff Travel bureau and see if they will also do this or something similar.

As Paul said, my airline (CO) would print on the ticket:

For example: LHR-CDG Valid on AF/BA/BD

I just talked to our pass bureau lady, and she was able to give me a little more definite of an answer than last time. If the routing is the same, different carriers WILL accept any ZED pass, ie LAX-LHR is good on BA, VS, and AA. Different routings are where it gets sticky. From the sound of it, though, LH allows different routings within the same fare zone, ie PDX-FRA and SFO-FRA.

Paul, I have two BA-specific questions, if you don't mind.

-Does BA apply the £30/segment fuel surcharge to nonrevs/ZED?
-In your experience, is BA a stickler about routing for nonrevs? IE, if I get a ZED pass LAX-LHR (Zone 7), would it be possible to use it on SEA-LHR (Zone 6)?

Much thanks! -Sam

Sam,
BA does not charge its own staff the fuel surcharge but I guess you'd need to check with a non-BA member herein to see if they got charged it or not on any interline BA tickets.
Normally BA would accept a ZM7 for a ZM6 route however it often depends nowadays if the handling is done by genuine BA staff or handling agents / other carrier staff who are less flexible.

yep.. they charge the fuel surcharge to me.. but they cheaper than virgin so it's all good.

A quick note on YQ/YR :
This is not a tax, it's a surcharge and currently it is not interlineable.
To verify : In your own airlines' system, make a dummy revenue reservation for another carrier : For example, if I price LON BA NYC BA LON, the fare returned should be the base fare plus all GOVERNMENT taxes, no YQ. If I price the same itinerary on UA, whom I work for, the YQ tax is shown.
I know for example, that LH do not charge their own employees the RA tax through Germany, which is quite high, however, our Head Office has confirmed that we need to collect the tax. Under the individual tax filing, the exemption for RA tax only applies to crew positioning, so I guess LH absorbs this tax.
Each tax has an exemption clause, the question is whether a ticket agent has the time to check which taxes are exempt and which are not ....

You should have no problem with ZEDs on european airlines as long as the ticket is valid:

a) The fare basis is exactly or over your level of agreement with the operating carrier (i.e. you have a ZM agreement with LX and your basis is YIDZM7R2 or YIDZH7R2). If it is lower (YIDZL7R2) you have nothing to do.

b) The miles level is exactly the same or over the miles level of the flight (it's ok to use a YIDZM7R2 for a ZM6 flight).

c) The taxes total amount is the same or over the taxes total amount for the new route. For example, LAXFRA has more expensive taxes than LAXZRH, so it will be ok to use a LAXFRA tkt on a LAXZRH flight, but not the reverse.

This last point is the least often checked. Indeed i'm talking about a perfect world. If you are sure your tkt is valid for a certain route but the check-in agent refuses to accept it, ask him or her to call the sales office, just to be sure. Normally (at least in Europe) it's easier to get on a flight you shouldn't really be getting on to than the reverse.

BTW, I can confirm YR/YQ surcharges are NEVER charged on interline tickets.

Unfortunately the YQ is applicable for ID90/75 but as mentioned not on ZED tickets

My airline doesn't charge it on any ID tickets at all, not even ID00s.

To Estradin's comment "BTW, I can confirm YR/YQ surcharges are NEVER charged on interline tickets." that is not true. YR/YQ can be be collected on an interline ticket, and billed by the lifting carrier, if agreed to by both parties (i.e., the validating and the lifting carrier).

To Z's comment "Unfortunately the YQ is applicable for ID90/75 but as mentioned not on ZED tickets", that is also not completely correct. For ID90 and ID75 intended for interline travel, the YQ and YR are not collected unless there is bilateral agreement to do so (as noted above). The problem is that if it is not collected at ticketing, there is generally nothing stopping the lifting airline from collecting it at checking.

The ZED agreement (which is multilateral) states that a carrier cannot bill or attempt to collect from the traveler a tax/fee/charge that is not remiited to a government or airport authority (e.g., YQ, YR, Q). The ID agreements (e.g., ID90/ID75), however, do not routinely include this.

Sorry, I was talking about my experience. We don't have too many ID90 agreements (we have a lot of ZED agreements, though), so I don't get to issue as many Interline ID90s as you'd think. I had been told that YQ/YR were never charged on Interline tickets, but probably that was according to our agreements.