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Aloha...I am a DL retiree also seeking advice for buddy pass riders departing out of CDG on the 27th or 28th of October. Can you give me some insight as to how the flights are worked especially in an oversold situation (does DL UPG to C or rollover to YC on other flights)? Should they completely avoid the 27th as CDG -ATL avail shows 17 in C and -26 in YC. What are your suggestions. Appreciate your input.....Mahalo!
Based on the authorized # showing right now--I suggest they plan to start with the first flight on the 27th, see what kind of no-show factor hits them. Agents should roll the list from first flight to the next option.
Keep in mind there is an excellent backup to CVG on the 28th (since the 28th could be dicey with the buddy pass riders who are senior to yours.) Keep checking and if you need more opinions--I'm sure you'll get more as time narrows!!
If it's at all possible, I would avoid flying out of CDG at all. BRU might be a better option. At CDG the show is run by Air France and they DO NOT work the standby list properly.
In Oct 2005 I flew to CDG on a DL buddy pass and spent 2 days trying to get home. Over the course of the 3 days I got to know some of my fellow "bumpees" and gathered their seniority dates. By the 2nd day it became obvious that people with less seniority were being boarded and I was being left behind. The AF employees were simply writing down people's names on a piece of paper without regard to seniority. I finally put a stop to it when a group of 3 people with 2000 seniority were given seats and I was left behind with 1989 seniority.
I worked for DL for 8 years and now work for AA. In between jobs I used DL buddy passes to travel. I know how to non-rev and I knew this was not right! I asked to speak to a supervisor and finally got on a flight.
So...again my advice is fly into CDG but fly out of somewhere where it is actually DL running the operation. Especially if your flight is already showing negative in coach! I checked my flight the day before I left and it had 43 seats in coach and about 5 in business - with about 6 non-revs listed. And look what happened.
Be careful out there!
Zinnia7--sorry we lost you to AA. The situation at CDG has improved greatly since 05--there were some serious problems with the AF staff 'tudes and their ability to deal w/nonrevs equitable. I think those have been resolved but here is still a minor difficulty with buddy pass riders and their 'tudes, too. I have no issues in the past 2 years--staff has been extremely friendly recently.
I would never want to NRSA out of CDG unless I felt totally secure (even with 20 yrs seniority) getting to the States on Delta. I flew AF once and even in L'Espace the service was barely acceptable for that class. My parents were in coach and I can tell you the "constructive criticism" letter for Delta's information regarding AF service was extensive.
I would choose BRU or AMS any day, but many buddy PR's don't understand that it's usually preferable to CDG.
Those who know, right?
See my post around March 2005 (search for my username and CDG) re our pretty bad CDG experience. Also look at posts by Flywithoutreservations re CDG. Good luck!Quote:
Aloha...I am a DL retiree also seeking advice for buddy pass riders departing out of CDG on the 27th or 28th of October. Can you give me some insight as to how the flights are worked especially in an oversold situation (does DL UPG to C or rollover to YC on other flights)? Should they completely avoid the 27th as CDG -ATL avail shows 17 in C and -26 in YC. What are your suggestions. Appreciate your input.....Mahalo![/b]
Maybe I was lucky I flew numerous times from CDG on AF with a ZED ticket around Xmas, summer you name it.
I do not want to brag but I never had any problems. AF have so many flight to the Usa or Canada I think you can always find your way.
Of course I have some tickets to all of zones.
Thanks everyone for your input. You all paint a very very worrisome picture of buddy passing out of CDG. Initially when they were planning the trip I suggested that they avoid leaving out of CDG...soooooo what do they do????? Not only leave out of CDG but try to leave on a SAT/SUN!!! The plan now is to leave out on the 28th and I told them to consider CDG-CVG. It shows 16-C 10-YC with 3 NRSAs listed. The CDG-ATL flights are already -20YC and -5YC. I do have another question...I understand that since AF is not using our system I won't be able to see anyone cleared on the removal list on Deltanet...how accurate is the seat count on the seats remaining?
to quote Mr. T--"I pity the poor fool"...
gotta love pass riders who "decide" 3wks what they "want" to do. They can't even rely on taking the Thalys train to BRU because that doesn't look any better than Paris. CVG is just about their only option, but with that said, anyone who knows what they're doing is hip to CVG, too.
The seat count is quite accurate. The real problem may be that the list from the 27th will rollover and it will all change. I truly hope they make it and in BE. The crew I've had thru CVG has always been superb!
I'm sitting here killing time iinstead of going to FCO 2 days ago. My return would be impossible on Sat--it really stinks! And that's with 20 yrs on an S2--wouldn't even waste my time going cuz I'd be scrounging for a seat home. The loads are record high for EU in Sept and it looks like Oct is gonna break some more!
I just bought KE seats w/skymiles to connect us between DL flights--not chancing getting stuck in Seoul at the end of the month for vacation. Our numbers look excellent, but I know what can happen(of course, not THIS time)
So, pat them on the head IF they ever make it back and ask them if they'd do it again? You can guess the answer will be OUI!
My goodness !! Everyone is making me nervous about my upcoming trip! We are hoping to come home from CDG to the states on Sat Oct 20. Things are not looking great so can anyone give me insight on the "no show factor" out of Paris? The BRU flights look bad too. I am a retiree 04/77 senority S3B.
Thanks so much
Carol
Caroljane--relax but you need to consider that maybe Saturday is not a good day to nonrev. Sunday isn't the best choice, either.
BUT--the good news is that ATL flight 29 looks good right now 7/19, CVG isn't bad either with 7 up front and even the -10 in coach still has 10 authorized, so the no-show factor is a factor! JFK is not good at all. As they say, "don't go there!"
Whatever happended to nonrevving on Tues and Weds? Why does everyone think it will work on weekends?
Looking at the flights out of CDG on the 27th and I can see what you mean Mrs767er.....the oversold situation is getting worse to ATL now -31 and -21. Will the oversold YC will just keep rolling over to the next flight in YC and not affect C? If that is the case then NRSAs do have a chance so long as the number of STBY desiring seats not exceed the C availability. Now, another possibility is that the oversold seat situation will firm up prior to the flight departure and actually not be such a grim picture. I hope my sense of logic and past experience from working domestic flights also applies for international flights......They haven't even left yet but their trip will be a "living nightmare" for me until they make it home....gee...I don't even get to experience their "fun" moments!!! I will pass on the information on hotels by the airport suggested by forum members just in case they get bumped.
Hello Love!
As it stands now--if they dopn't don't get on the first one, they probably will have to tuck in their tails for the day. Now--if you can convince them to look at AMS as an alternative? Not too shabby today. Once the first one breaks down, there's no going on with overbooking--they'll move any rev pax to the 9:20 if they get there early. they can't take Frog Air, right?
If they live close by, bring them over, make them sit and look at the numbers with you. Like I said to Caroljane--the seats are what they are and there are none to be had once they're gone. maybe your riders want to try another country?? Budapest is outstanding funand Prague is cheap and gorgeous! It's the Paris of Eastern Europe! Of course, I didn't czech the seats yet...I have a great apt bdlg to recommend in Prague
Well....I guess I'll be a nervous wreck for the rest of the month. No turning back now....I live in Honolulu and they are in SFO so we have been hashing it out on the phone. The numbers have been reviewed...they are going to take a chance with CVG and bypass the ATL flight "dramas". Tell me again, they don't UPG YC to C in an oversold situation do they? Thanks so much...you have been a great help and this forum has been a wonderful outlet for my buddy pass blues!Quote:
Hello Love!
As it stands now--if they dopn't don't get on the first one, they probably will have to tuck in their tails for the day. Now--if you can convince them to look at AMS as an alternative? Not too shabby today. Once the first one breaks down, there's no going on with overbooking--they'll move any rev pax to the 9:20 if they get there early. they can't take Frog Air, right?
If they live close by, bring them over, make them sit and look at the numbers with you. Like I said to Caroljane--the seats are what they are and there are none to be had once they're gone. maybe your riders want to try another country?? Budapest is outstanding funand Prague is cheap and gorgeous! It's the Paris of Eastern Europe! Of course, I didn't czech the seats yet...I have a great apt bdlg to recommend in Prague[/b]
Gate can't leave any rev pax and put NRSA on instead, period. So they can upgrade as needed to claar rev pax--usually starting with fullfare/medallion.Quote:
Well....I guess I'll be a nervous wreck for the rest of the month. No turning back now....I live in Honolulu and they are in SFO so we have been hashing it out on the phone. The numbers have been reviewed...they are going to take a chance with CVG and bypass the ATL flight "dramas". Tell me again, they don't UPG YC to C in an oversold situation do they? Thanks so much...you have been a great help and this forum has been a wonderful outlet for my buddy pass blues![/b]
ATL can be a major drama because of last minute listings.--that's a big base for nonrevs!
Good luck and keep us posted!
Well we can't have this. Lovetofly I'm going to give you my handy dandy tried and true tips for surviving family and friends pass travel.Quote:
They haven't even left yet but their trip will be a "living nightmare" for me until they make it home....gee...I don't even get to experience their "fun" moments!!![/b]
To begin, you have to get yourself in the right frame of mind.
*think George C. Scott as General Patton marshalling his troops*
Remember rookie pass travelers are by nature a very optimstic bunch (the poor dears :mellow: ) and it's your job to prepare these former revenue pax for travel in this strange new world. You want your rookies ready for bear. You want them so psyched, that if asked to split up, hold for a later flight or told they will be routing through two hubs, they will consider it initiation in the non-rev travel club. Go Team!
*think Clint Eastwood in The Outlaw Josey Wales*
Ten days before travel
Because their flights are dicey--Tell your rookies that they will be bumped, not probably bumped, will be bumped and they should expect to spend one day coming/going in the airport. While they're reeling from that news tell them they'll probably be rolled over coming home and should be ready to stay at a hotel overnight. (I usually quote 2 to 1 odds and tell them some horror story about a D3 that got stuck in DFW for a week--makes my rookies real attentive ;) Now lay it on thick, remember this is for their, and your, mental health. Remind them about the extra clothes in the carry-on and having to drag their over-stuffed suitcase all over creation. Explain rollover, how to check to see if they are listed and what to do it they are not.
If you think your rookies can handle it, give them back-ups on other carriers. ( I don't do this for my rookies- as the train at DFW was seen as an insurmountable obstable) ;)
At any rate explain airline partners/alliances (especially if they are traveling overseas) and give them a time limit at the airport. Tell them if they are still stuck after ...days (I give mine 2 days) they are to give you a call and you will *think Laurence Fishburne in Mission Impossible-3*
give them new routing instructions.
*think your mom on your first day of school* ;)
Two days before travel review eveything again, especially non-rev travel rules and airport hotel numbers. Most importantly issue any RED FLAG warnings! Trust me, these last minute warnings may be the best thing you can do for your mental health.
Now wish everybody well, suggest they bring you back a great souvenir and remind your rookies that nonrevs don't breathe easy until "wheels up".
BTW, my overseas rookies were flying LAX/DFW/FCO. After two days in DFW, they decided NYC was exotic enough.
Edited to add vital stuff!
Keep'em flying
Mahalo Migflanker for the advice and chuckles! :D It's seven days prior to their departure and I sit at home on this Columbus day holiday checking and rechecking the return loads out of CDG....the good news is that their flights are not booked yet so I can still put in a pitch for them get out of Paris and leave out of AMS instead (thanks to mrs767er, I passed on the Thalys website so they can check schedules and fares). I have given them the "oversold horror story" for buddy pass riders (the international version!)....especially with numbers like -31 and -21...they would be lucky if they made it out 2 days later and if not, the horror story starts all over again! There are four of them so I also posed the question about having to split up if seats were not available for everyone????? Who will be left behind in Paris? I think I hit a "nerve"!!!
Changing the subject, they are flying out on the 15th SFO-LGW....Looks good out of JFK...anyone has any "warnings" that I need to keep in mind for JFK....ATL flights are still filling up.
I'm still laughing about migflanker's suggestions and horror stories for his nonrevs.
Now I'm about to fall apart and roll on the floor --your party is 4 nrsa's?? arghh--you poor thing--hang in there, you are some friend to tkae on the chore of even getting them on seat request!--if they just get somewhere overseas...be happy. did I mention the websites for LCC's? myair.com ryanair.com skyeurope.com etc?
this is the continuing saga of lovetofly's nonrevs--stay tuned for the next chapter!
:lol:
"Laughter doeth good like a medicine".
Thanks for keeping us laughing Mig.
Now you know why I'm "pulling my hair out"!!!!!! Only for my sisters (plus spouses) will I endure this agony. What's funny is that they asked if I could take a couple of days off and join them...did something not "sink in".....oversold...no seats...no way out of HE** (oh excuse me, I meant CDG)!Quote:
I'm still laughing about migflanker's suggestions and horror stories for his nonrevs.
Now I'm about to fall apart and roll on the floor --your party is 4 nrsa's?? arghh--you poor thing--hang in there, you are some friend to tkae on the chore of even getting them on seat request!--if they just get somewhere overseas...be happy. did I mention the websites for LCC's? myair.com ryanair.com skyeurope.com etc?
this is the continuing saga of lovetofly's nonrevs--stay tuned for the next chapter![/b]
It's fun to laugh with all of you regarding this personal drama!
Oh yeah! http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/8.gifQuote:
What's funny is that they asked if I could take a couple of days off and join them...did something not "sink in".....oversold...no seats...no way out of HE** (oh excuse me, I meant CDG)!
It's fun to laugh with all of you regarding this personal drama![/b]
Keep'em flying
I have been SO entertained by everyone's comments. I almost have forgotten what quick witted people airline people are!! Thank you so much for all the info! My daughter and I are in the "non rev mode" We will get there when we can and if we cannot get home.... HEY Professors will have to understand and I quess my job will be here when I get back!!!
I just wanted to report that Caroljane and her daughter are winging their way to Paris in business class. Let's hope they get the same on return--or at least a seat!
Thanks for the update 767, I'll got my fingers crossed for all "my" Deltaflyers. ;)Quote:
I just wanted to report that Caroljane and her daughter are winging their way to Paris in business class. Let's hope they get the same on return--or at least a seat![/b]
Aloha all! My drama update....my family ( the 4 crazy NRSAs) made it out and are heading to LGW.... thanks to DL they made it out in BE!!! No CDG drama this time....they opted to depart out of AMS....thanks to Migflanker the "counting down the days shock treatment" worked. Mahalo everyone....I have a couple of weeks to relax until I track their return saga!Quote:
Thanks for the update 767, I'll got my fingers crossed for all "my" Deltaflyers. ;)[/b]
Yeah, sometimes you just have to put the "zapper"on high. BTW lovetofly, I mentioned your drama in my new "Y did the chicken cross the road?" post. I just couldn't resist. :lol:Quote:
thanks to Migflanker the "counting down the days shock treatment" worked. Mahalo everyone....I have a couple of weeks to relax until I track their return saga![/b]
Ok. Come back and keep us posted on the return saga. It's like a reality show now! :DQuote:
I have a couple of weeks to relax until I track their return saga![/b]
Still more, because you can never get enough chicken jokes.
Why did the chicken cross the road?
(Nonrev Forum Edition--)
Lovetofly---- To warn her family (4 crazy buddy pass riders) that a French steam-roller was coming
Aloha all! Thanks to Migflanker my family avoided the "French steam-roller". They are having a great time visiting London, Paris and will be departing out of Amsterdam in a few days. So far, things are still looking good.
I am following the weekend CDG drama to report back to them "all they've missed" by rerouting via AMS.
10/27/07 AF codeshare-CANCELLED
4 DL flights-only 2 NRSAs cleared
10/28/07 4 DL flights loads in YC: -10/-23/-16/-15
The CDG saga continues.....
We are just back from CDG without any problems!
Well, the transit strike had worried us, but it ended up working in our favor because all our subway travel was free.
Our single daily flight to DTW is also handled by AF and they were very helpful to us.
There were over 60 seats open DTW-CDG and over 100 on the return.
Sorry to hear of all your CDG troubles
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lovetofly @ Oct 27 2007, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>So Lovetofly what happened? Where are our "four crazy pass riders"? Please don't tell me they're stuck on a runway in ATL? ;)Quote:
They are having a great time visiting London, Paris and will be departing out of Amsterdam in a few days. So far, things are still looking good.
The CDG saga continues.....[/b]
Inquiring minds what to know.
Keep'em flying
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Migflanker @ Nov 8 2007, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>Hi everyone....having a problem with my sign in on this forum...it keeps on signing me out. The "four crazy pass riders" are back at home. Leaving out of AMS was a "no stress" situation......after clearing all stby passengers, the flight still had 40 seats available. After monitoring the CDG weekend flights , I think only a handful of NRSA's cleared any list. What a bummer to have to go back and forth to the airport (been there, done that).....avoiding the French steamroller, they enjoyed the sights of AMS for a couple of days and had a worry-free ride home! It was fun keeping you all posted but "let's not do this again!"Quote:
So Lovetofly what happened? Where are our "four crazy pass riders"? Please don't tell me they're stuck on a runway in ATL? ;)
Inquiring minds what to know.
Keep'em flying[/b]
Aloha and happy holidays from the islands!
You guys are WAY TOO NICE to rookies or even the experienced pass riders if they make it to the "Experienced" level. Mine don't. Because, I refuse to go through that kind of trouble. I just lay it like this. You make it, you do, if you don't make it, I warned you about it, so you're on your own pal. Stay or sleep in the airport till you make it out. Just like that. Oh, I'll check the loads for them before they get I eticket them, from then on, they are ON THEIR OWN. And unless its family, the phone is off the ringer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Migflanker @ Oct 9 2007, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (29Palms @ Nov 10 2007, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>I've NEVER had a problem with "Friends & Family" passes...because they are Friends & Family.Quote:
You guys are WAY TOO NICE to rookies or even the experienced pass riders if they make it to the "Experienced" level. Mine don't. Because, I refuse to go through that kind of trouble. I just lay it like this. You make it, you do, if you don't make it, I warned you about it, so you're on your own pal. Stay or sleep in the airport till you make it out. Just like that. Oh, I'll check the loads for them before they get I eticket them, from then on, they are ON THEIR OWN. And unless its family, the phone is off the ringer.[/b]
I'm always there to help them...but, they're experienced and never call.