NonRev "Black Holes" - your list?

During a discussion in one of the threads in the Australia/Oceania forum, I mentioned how HNL was a nonrev black hole where many went in and found it hard to escape. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Another forum moderator was of the opinion HNL wasn't that bad, so I thought what a good thread to start discussion on.

My "Top 3" black holes for nonrevs (in no particular order) are HNL SIN BKK. In 26 years of nonrevving, I've only ever been stuck 3 times - HNL twice and FRA once. Both HNL adventures took 3 days each before I got out - once on a revenue fare DL midnight special to SAN and once by one of the numerous backups I always carry coming through at the last minute.
I know my own carrier quite often has people waiting days to get to/from HNL. despite back-ups with the U.S. carriers.
I think SIN is bad because the home player (SQ) doesn't really give good discounts to OAL's so everyone is always trying for the other carriers. When I was at QF, it was not unusual to see alerts or embargos suddenly appear as 80 or more nonrevs had been trying to get out of SIN for several days.
BKK is BKK - usually okay to get through, but often chokes up with nonrevs.

Be interesting to see anyone else's lists - generic black holes like Trans-Atlantic in August don't count! http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hi again Al! After stating that you were going to start a "black hole" list, I remembered one that I think is a great candidate for your list based on my and other's non-revving experience that fails almost every time. FCO is my pick. Not only during obvious peak summer travel season, but what surprised me was when non-revs were getting stuck or denied in October as if it was summer season. My personal experience happened in March which is just before peak season starts. With only a couple of months window to travel there (in winter... http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif), I thought this would be a good candidate for your list.
Thanks for starting it..I am sure it will come in handy to our fellow non-revvers. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To me the worst has to be EZE. It’s always fine to go there but getting out (specially to Europe) it could be a nightmare.
I am probably one of the worst Nonrevs since I always fly during Xmas time and Easter. But the adrenalin of getting on a flight at peak season is immeasurable.

I would say my best story was flying on the last Friday before Xmas from CDG to EZE on a 772. I nonrev from LGW to CDG all fine, then I got to the check in desk for the EZE flight (The day before the flight was oversold by approx. 20 but because of my experience with AF I had chances) and the agent says: “The flight looks perfect”.

I waited patiently and I didn’t only made but I got upgraded at the gate after I went to thank the captain for taking me home for Xmas (He said: “ Can I see your boarding card?” and then after glancing at it he just spoke to the purser and I got an upgrade) and all for GBP50 one way.

Just delightful

My top three black holes-
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
HNL--I've got to go along with you Al, Honolulu is tough. I have heard more sad songs about HNL than any other place.
I've been stuck there twice, both times traveling off-season, mid-week and with my 'lucky charm' too http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DFW--(AA Black Hole) More times than not I have trouble connecting through DFW and I always try to route my D3's around it.

LAS--Believe it or not, at one time Vegas was a shining star, you could non-rev in/out last minute even on a week-end...NOW, you do not non-rev LAS Fridays or Sundays period.[/list]

Al, any places you consider "shining stars"?

Keep'em flying

Even shining stars lose their lustre at times. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I have to admit though, when I was at AN I would always go to Europe using our flight up to KIX and then onwards from there. Never had a problem at KIX and always got out on my preferred flight every time without even having to worry about the back-ups. I wouldn't have tried it through Golden Week or similar though!
The other bonus with KIX was the neatly staggered departure times of the Euro carriers to their hubs (in case you needed to do the back-up dance) and the fact that they were daylight flights over Siberia and Russia into Europe, arriving in the late afternoon/early evening. Jetlag was never a factor.

Nothing else stands out from my experiences as consistently easy and hassle free to get through as KIX has been.

i had my worst experience on the routing ATL-MIA-ATL. i was stuck nearly one day each way. it was midweek, no holidays, nothing, but not a chance to get a seat. a lot of dead head travel and much much more nonrevs from DL.
i am with you Al. i avoid SIN. very hard to get out there as SQ has no agreements with other airlines.

I'd have to agree with Migflanker on LAS... Even though it is a hub for HP and WN, getting out is nearly impossible, especially Sundays and Mondays.

I was there twice this year, the first time flew in on a Sat night (got 1st class) and out on a Wed, had to change the return time because my preferred was getting risky. The other time I just bought tickets (with the employee discount), was going for a show just for an overnight and didn't want to risk it (return flight was full on a Thurs morning).

Some other 'Black Holes' that seem to pop up for people here at HP:
ORD
MSP

PHL: especially now since the merger. Don't even try to nonrev on US/HP between PHX or LAS and PHL. A gal I work with was trying for the PHX/PHL red eye a few weeks back to get a flight to CDG. She ended up on the PHX/JFK red eye, rented a car and drove to PHL.


Tim

I also agree that LAS should top the list. Not only did we not get out even with passes from 4 different carriers but we could not find a hotel room and slept on the floor. This was after checking the flight loads the day before when the computer system said there were 30 available.
My second choice is ATL. I never get out if I am trying for a DL flight, though I have had better luck with FL.

Tim, Coyne

Inside tip--Always check for conventions before you non-rev Vegas. [96,000 attendees expected], never a good sign. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emotic...on_biggrin.gif Vegas conventions


Keep'em flying

What about Heathrow? I was stuck there overnight after I missed all the united flights to Chicago,Washington and New York.

Did you have other backups to get out of LHR? I believe BA, VS, and AA also do many trips to several points in the US. UA also does flights to DEN, SFO, and LAX. There are many others that have flights from LGW, such as CO, DL, NW, US, AI, and some more VS.
Whenever I travel (be it across country or just a hop to the bay area), I always have backups ready, since you never know when there will be a cxl. They are fully refundable if not used.

UA was my backup. OS was my primary but the flight ended up being overbooked at last minuete because I checked and we had plenty of empty seats.. never realize that it was an holiday weekend for the kids so flights filled up and oversold and I ended up missing the flight. The OS flight to washington board at the same time so I missed that also. I therefore use my backup which was United and flew to heathrow and tried for United and missed out. Never made it out until the next morning.

Again, my two-cents-worth on HNL. I suppose Al is correct about HNL depending on where you're trying to get from/to. I have heard nasty stories about AC's route YVR-HNL-SYD from co-workers.

HNL can be horrific if you choose the wrong time of the year. But, as with anything, including space-a travel, timing is everything and backup passes are a must.

We frequent Hawai'i often. Usually thru LAX, sometimes thru SFO and occassionally nonstop from ORD. We have flown TZ, AA and CO. September and January are our months of choice but we have sucessfully done it in Feb, April, May, July and August as well. (There was that 3 day attempt to get there in June a few years ago! Never again in June! http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emotic...on_redface.gif )

All--

Sounds like most of us have been "taken in" by several of the famous NRSA black holes...

Myself, it's been HNL X3, BKK X2 and SYD X1... Had to get an ID90 on AC to get out of HNL.. ID 95 on TG to get out of BKK and ID 90 again on AC to get out of SYD..

I've found that overall AC makes a pretty good "ID protection" ticket.. They travel to most places worlwide that a NRSA would go and have reliable service.. I'm not endorsing AC, but in my past practice, found them to be my life saver on more than one occurance...

Interesting, that's been my experience too.

First big trip to London. Primary oversold, backup oversold. Scrambling to find an alternative. AC got us there thru YOW with no problem. Fast forward a few years. A grand 2 1/2 week adventure to China. Same problem. Plans falling apart. Scrambling for alternatives again. AC came to the rescue via YVR.

AC may be coming to the rescue yet again. Rumor is they'll be flying Toronto-Los Angeles-Sydney with new 777s starting early next year. A new player on the LAX/SYD route should bring a little light into the Sydney black hole. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Keep'em flying

No rumour. AC has applied to the Oz Govt for approval. The U.S. gave Canada full traffic rights from it's ports, used as a stopover on flights from Canada to a 3rd country, in the last round of talks a couple of months ago. This is the first visible sign that AC for one intends to make full use of the freedoms.

Back when I was with AN, AC were fantastic on one occasion when I was trying to get from LHR-YYZ. ID90 days - before ZED's so had a fistful of back-ups. One of AC's LHR-YYZ went mechanical, so instantly one just knew start heading towards the other carriers in T3 at Thiefrow. But no, friendly AC check-in agent says, "if you want to run we'll accept your LHR-YYZ coupon - you can make the LHR-YYT-YHZ flight and we'll then carry you from YHZ into YYZ". Ended up falling in love with Nova Scotia as we came in to land there, asked the AC staff on arrival if it was okay to continue on the next day (no coupons remember), as I wanted to have a night looking around. "Sure, not a problem" was the reply. So I had a nice afternoon/evening in YHZ then the next day was routed to YYZ via YUL.
My LHR-YYZ coupon got me LHR-YYT-YHZ-YUL-YYZ over two days - and people wonder why we love this biz !

wow.. pretty awesome. AC is real good last year when I had my positive space letter and called to book I was given a confirmation for two and when I arrived at the airport and picked up the tickets I was suprised to find that I didn't have to pay anything from lga to toronto. I have another positive space letter and will save that for somewhere like tokyo

Well, I can't really say SIN is a black hole as long as you have backup tickets ready.
Been going STO-SIN 22 times now and never stuck once! http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Then again I carry tickets for about 10 different routes and all the carriers we have agreements with on those routes!
Same thing with BKK! Never stuck when stopping there on my way to/from SIN. Got close once but we managed to get on the last TG flight of the night to CPH that was oversold by 22! http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emotic...on_biggrin.gif

While I still contend that timing is everything, here's an article that might just explain why you can't find that elusive seat or that great interline hotel discount.

Click: Hawaii close to capacity

So Hawaii has hung out the "no vacancy" sign,... now I've got to worry about getting bumped by a state. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Keep'em flying

Well, one thing they didn't mention and only vaguely alluded to in the article is resources and the environment. At some point you have to consider the plants and animals - the flora and fauna - of the islands. You can't just keep building more highrises and more and more ocean front resorts.

Besides, do you have any idea how much garbage all those tourists produce. Where are they going to keep putting it? And what about the fresh water? It's already stretched to the limit now. From time to time officials talk about building a desalinization plant. If tourism keeps growing they may just have to. If more people keep flocking to Hawai'i you may not be able to see any sand at all on Waikiki for all the beach towels and bathing bodies.

Years ago, before Waikiki was developed into the concrete behemoth it is today, my father-in-law was appointed by the governor to the state tourism commission. He and fellow members were given the task to redevelop Waikiki into the tourist magnet you see today. He regretted it until the day he died.

And yet more news!

Click: Maui May Be Running Out of Sand

So Maui is running out of sand... and here I sit less than a 30 minutes drive from tons and tons of it just lying around. Hmmmm http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/3.gif is that opportunity I hear knocking? I think I'll load up the truck. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emotic...on_biggrin.gif

Keep'em flying

I'll put in another vote for LAS Vegas. That's the only place I've gotten stuck so far. One Sunday I was bumped off of 7 flights, gave up, got a 1-way rental car, and drove home.

As an HP/US employe my blackhole lists based on my personal non-rev experiences are:

LAS--traveling to LAS on Fri and leaving LAS on Sunday can be a non-rev nightmare. I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten screwed over in LAS. I do avoid Fri/Sun travel all together.
HNL--summertime, Xmas/New Years. Sat flights from HNL to mainland. I have never had any problems getting to HNL, its alway leaving that's a pain. The worst experience I had is I could not get out for 2 days.
MCO/FLL--springbreak season and Christmas/New Year's. I do travel to MCO/FLL quiet frequently I have never been bumped yet, but have come very close to be bumped several times.
PHX-SEA, PHX-ANC, PHX-YVR ---summertime when cruises are active. flight are also filled with PHX locals who want to get out of the Arizona heat. I have never flown PHX-ANC or YVR but have heard several nightmare stories espcially from passenger flying on employee passes who miss out cruises because they are too cheap to purchase a real ticket. I cannot undertand people who can fork out over $1000 on a Alaskan cruise but cannot afford a $400 flight to ANC. Makes no sense to me.
PHX(LAS)-PHL and PHX(LAS)-CLT. --ever since the the US/HP merger its a nightmare trying to get between the east/west coast hubs.
PHX-MSP, PHX-OMA--although I have never flown these routes. I have many co-workers who tell me their horror stories. One theory may be some passengers refuse to fly on NW.

I too am constantly astounded at the amount of people that try to non-rev to get to "must be at" events such as the above mentioned cruises, or weddings or whatever's. Especially during periods like spring breaks, thanksgiving etc. What is even sadder is their incredulation when you tell them "it's going to be tough getting you out" !! These days with all the webbie's and specials, you could guarantee a flight at a reasonable, if not downright outrageous, fare with some forward planning.

Touching back on HNL again, my carrier has now included that port in our new, well it's 2 years old now, fare structure that's being rolled out worldwide and you can pick up one way fares for as little as USD190.00. Nonrevving just got a whole lot tougher all of a sudden.

I non rev to weddings already and never had problems. Planning to non-rev from new york to cmh for a weekemd wedding next month. plan to use award letters with continental and backup on southwest. No football games in columbus this time of year so I know I should make it through CO.

I mainly nonrev within europe and LHR and CDG are the worst, however, I had a "funny" experience in BKK.
I was nonreving in the route BKK-LHR and we were around 40 nonrevers around BA desk 20 min before the take off...suddenly a thai girl appear with a paper and she read my name...only my name!! such a lucky person am I! I though. I got the worst seat in the plane and so on but....in 12 hours I was landing in LHR

Betoindajaus... the worst seat, hmmm, now I see why you wanted to know about upgrade tricks. http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
On the bright side, it does sound like you got the "getting on the flight, while everybody else is standing around" trick, down pat http://www.nonrev.net/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif abracadabra! http://bestsmileys.com/magic/1.gif

Welcome aboard

Keep'em flying

hehehe, it was a good trick but, mainly was because there were only one free seat in the plane and all the people who was standing around BA desk were families and couples...I was the only one alone there so they decided to give me that awful seat...but at least I got a seat!