France/Spain

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09-Jan-2010, 06:46 AM
Nick

Got restless and have started planning my next trip. Have training in HKG so there and back is covered.

Looking at flying in to CDG, and hitting some French cities by train, flying into Spain, then out via FRA or MXP to reduce departure tax (as opposed to CDG/LHR as we don't fly to Spain).

I'm thinking CDG-(Dijon maybe)-Lyon-Bordeaux-Toulouse by train staying a few days in each (if I book now online at the french site rather than a rail pass it is WAY cheaper - total cost something like 120 euros in 1st class). Anyone have any suggestions on those cities, what to see where to stay? Should I bypass some or stay longer in others?

I've been to Toulouse before, but didn't have as much time there as I wanted. I had Marseille on my list until a friend from VS told me it's kinda dodgy. No interest in Paris as done it before.

Then plan is to nonrev IB (air nostrum) TLS-BCN, then confirmed on Vueling BCN-SVQ, then nonrev IB SVQ-MAD. Planned a couple of days in each place.

Brian's talk about SVQ got me interested enough to check it out. Any suggestions on what to see/do/stay Brian?
09-Jan-2010, 08:48 AM
mrs767er

HalTZ can help w/ Lyon, Nice area--he has family there and goes often. My niece is doing the wine route there in a month--what's your timing, Nick?
09-Jan-2010, 08:56 AM
Nick

Looking at start of April, couple of weeks.

AS an afterthought, not that I plan on taking the BCN-MAD route, but am curious if any IB people know if a ZED is eligible for the air shuttle (puente aereo) or just the regular flights? World's busiest air route... who woulda thought
09-Jan-2010, 11:16 PM
spongebue

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nick @ Jan 9 2010, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quote:

Brian's talk about SVQ got me interested enough to check it out. Any suggestions on what to see/do/stay Brian?[/b]

You bet! First things that come to mind: (of course, more comes as I type, so things are snowballing...)

If you go in April, be careful of April 3-12. That's semana santa, or Holy Week. Everything is a lot more expensive compared to normal (I've heard a beer is about 3 euros, as opposed to the normal 1.20ish) and nonrevving could have some problems. On the other hand, it's definitely an experience. If you do go, book your hotel as soon as you can... say, yesterday.

Be careful about Vueling. They're not RyanAir, but there are fees for each checked bag. What's more, if you miss your flight, they're not very forgiving. I had to pay an extra 80 Euros (120USD) when I missed the checkin cutoff (by 5 minutes) for my flight on the BCN-SVQ run. I tried to checkin online an hour or so earlier, but was too late for that since I didn't know there was a 2-hour cutoff for that (no message explaining that, I thought it was just a bug). Ironically, I was visiting my girlfriend's cousin and her family. Her husband used to be Vueling's director of marketing. Oh, and my roommate was going to take them from VIE-BCN-SVQ. He missed his VIE-BCN flight, and I think it cost him 200 euros for a new ticket from VIE-MAD, and he had to take a bus from there to Madrid. Spanair was pretty decent, though, and I really liked AirEuropa when I flew them to ORY.

Taxis from the airport are a little spendy, but I'm 99% sure that they're flat rate from the airport (they are TO the airport) to the city center. Another option is taking the airport bus (EA, meaning especial aeropuerto, or airport special) which goes from the airport to the Santa Justa train station to the San Sebastian bus station. Both have plenty of city bus lines running through. When I was there, it was 2.30E for the airport bus, 1.20E for the city ones. Don't think that'll change much in the next few months.

El Corte Ingles is a department store in most Spanish cities, and they almost always have a map of the city in their travel agency for free.

I don't know too much about hotels in the area, since I stayed with a host family, but I do know of a decent hostel. Hostal Nuevo Suizo, I think it's called. 10 euros a night at most (mostly during the summer, so cheaper is possible as well). It's definitely, well, a hostel, and it's a little older, but the woman that usually works at the front desk is absolutely amazing. No cockroaches or anything like that, either

Ok, things to eat:

I've never had any food I didn't like that I can think of, and that was sticking with the Spanish dishes (there are plenty of tourist places for those that are afraid of new foods, and they tend to stick out the most). The best foods are at the bars, and most bars serve only Cruzcampo if you want beer. There's also tinto con limon, which is a mix of red wine and lemon soda. Very refreshing. Food generally comes in full portions, (ración) half portions, or tapas. Usually people get a few different tapas, 3 will make a good meal, at ~2-2.50E per tapa. I like to know a few words (if that) and pick something at random. Or point to something you see behind the bar. Key words to know:

Plancha: Grill (most foods are cut thin and cooked on a skillet quickly)
Cocina: Kitchen/cuisine (general entrees)
Gambas: Shrimp
Jamon: ham (usually cured, very declicious)
Lomo: Pork loin (again, usually cut thin, and cooked just right)
Frios: Cold foods (for example, ensaladilla, which is a seafood potato salad of sorts)
Fritos: Fried foods
Tortilla: Can be anything flat and round technically, but 80% of the time it's a potato omelet. If it's under fritos, it's a bit different, I wouldn't recommend that so much. Fried fish, but really flat and mostly fry.
Postre: Dessert
Montadito/bocadillo: Sandwich (bocadillos are usually more of a submarine sandwich)
Pisto con Huevo: (Vegetable) stew with egg. Well worth getting at least once, really good.
Ensalada: Salad

Some places I've been to... I may not always remember the name, but I can describe where they are, roughly.
La Gitana - on Cuesta del Rosario, right underneath my school. One of the few places I've been to with free wifi. Has some pretty typical Spanish foods at reasonable prices.
There's a place with pretty good sandwiches (montaditos) pretty cheap. It's near Plaza Alfalfa, to the left of the Cajasol bank. Gambas alioli (shrimp with a garlic cream cheese sauce) is my personal favorite.
Cervecería Internacional (International Beerhouse) - Near Plaza Nueva. They have over 100 different beers from all over the world, and Belgium seems to come up a lot there. There are also plenty of little bars nearby for food (the food at Cervecería Internacional isn't that great and overpriced)
Huerta Mediterranea, [i]Los Claveles[i] and Taberna de los Terceros in Plaza de los Terceros: This plaza is a block away from where I was living, and had some good stuff. The first one has some Greek food, some Spanish, and is really good. The second is a little more Spanish. The third doesn't have much cooked food, but they have caña de lomo, a cured pork loin, that's absolutely amazing (albeit kind of expensive).
In Plaza Cristo de Burgos, there's a really good place. I don't remember the name of the place, but it's the only restaurant in that plaza. If you're facing the plaza with your back to the main street it runs by, it's in the back left corner. Slightly more expensive than normal, but nothing terribly bad and the food's still awesome.

Ok, now things to do/see:
First off, look through this list. I'm not saying everything on here is the best thing you'll ever do, but it's a good place to start: http://www.exploreseville.com/51things.htm

Now, my favorites:
Walk around the Guadalaquivir river a bit. One side has a good amount of things to see (Torre de Oro) and the other has a ton of bars and clubs (as in, get drunk and party bars) on Calle Betis.
Rent a bike. There are places all over town to use, all automated, at a good price. Just be sure the thing beeps when you return your bike to be sure it's checked back in, or you're hit with a good charge. As long as there are spots available to return the bike, you can return a bike on the other side of town from where you got it.
Plaza de España: Very pretty, was actually used as Naboo in one of the Star Wars movies (can't remember which, I actually haven't seen any of them)
Avenida de la Constitución: Very pretty street to walk down, good for people watching as well
Calle Sierpes/Calle Tetuán: Common shopping streets next to each other. If you stay at that hostel I mentioned, you'll be right off Sierpes.
Plaza Nueva: Near Avenida de la Constitución, worth strolling around in.
Plaza del Salvador: around 11:00PM or so, you'll get a lot of people hanging out and talking. And drinking, of course.
El Alcazar: Beautiful garden made during Muslim rule. About 8 euro to get in, but well worth it
El Catedral: Cathedral, next to the Alcazar. Obviously, every major city has its cathedral, but this one is one of the largest of its type, if I remember right, and has the supposed remains of Christopher Columbus (his body has been moved so many times, they aren't 100% sure anymore)

That should take care of you pretty well, especially if you're only there for a little bit

If you want some pictures of my trip to Europe, go ahead and add me on Facebook, if you have it. My full name is now known to you, and I should have my school as one of my networks. No offense to everyone else, but I'd prefer not to be friends with everyone on the site unless I've actually met you before, that's my general rule of thumb (I'm making an exception for this one).

Oh, and if you want a list of some Spanish phrases, let me know. In the meantime, here are sounds letters make that are different from Spanish. It'll help you a lot if you have to read something
a - ah
e = ay (like the English 'a')
i = ee (like the English 'e')
u = oo
g/j = English 'h'
h = silent (for example, hotel is spelled the same, but pronounced "oh-TAIL"
ll = y (ie, rain = llueve = you-ay-vay)
ñ = ny
q = more like a k (like Quito, Ecuador is KEE-to)
rr = if you can, roll the r a little.

Let me know if you have any other questions!
-Brian
10-Jan-2010, 06:15 AM
SpainFlier

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nick @ Jan 9 2010, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quote:

Looking at start of April, couple of weeks.

AS an afterthought, not that I plan on taking the BCN-MAD route, but am curious if any IB people know if a ZED is eligible for the air shuttle (puente aereo) or just the regular flights? World's busiest air route... who woulda thought[/b]

Absolutely YES, you can take the shuttle service "Puente Aereo" with a ZED tkt.
Make sure that when you arrive to BCN, to tell them you are taking the Puente Aereo, and they will put you on a shuttle flights, as there are also regular flights between both cities not operating as the shuttle reservation mode.

Puente Aereo is a great system that allow anyone to jump on a seat for the last minute (about 15 minuts before departure), so no worries about it.

You will probably see more employees, as it is taken by crews who comute for and back.

Also, Air Nostrum has very good service onboard, so I am pretty sure you will like it.

Anything you need, just drop me a word.
10-Jan-2010, 06:23 AM
Nick

Thanks SpainFlier... I just started looking at Valencia also. If you had to recommend Valencia or Seville to a tourist, which would it be?

Everyone keeps telling me how good Air Nostrum is. Do you offer food on IB flights also?
10-Jan-2010, 06:51 AM
Nick

Thanks for the info Brian... very detailed! One issue I have is my lack of Spanish. I can get by in France having studied it for 6 years in high school, but am a tad worried about not knowing Spanish. Am going to download one of those phrase apps to my iphone to try and learn some.

Can't wait to try some of that food too!

A friend was telling me about Valencia.... now a toss up between Seville and there. Too many places not enough time http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...#>/biggrin.gif
10-Jan-2010, 05:57 PM
SpainFlier

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nick @ Jan 10 2010, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quote:

Thanks SpainFlier... I just started looking at Valencia also. If you had to recommend Valencia or Seville to a tourist, which would it be?

Everyone keeps telling me how good Air Nostrum is. Do you offer food on IB flights also?[/b]

Well... If I had to choose between Sevilla and Valencia, I would rather say Valencia, as is a bigger city with more things to do and visit. But at the same time Sevilla is a nice city aswell, but much more a souther style...

Check "ciudad de las artes y las ciencias" de Valencia, which is an incredible attraction you cant miss if you come here.
Also "Barrio del Carmen", situated in the old part of the city center, with great restaurants and options to go out.

And yes, flights with Air Nostrum are great, great people, great service... you will notice that an Iberia flight is opperated by Air Nostrum because the flight number will be IB-8XXX. They will give you service onboard, depending on the duration of the flight, but even if the flight time is 30minuts, they will give you a beverage and something else.

Iberia mainline flights are food for purchase on flights with less than 3h duration.

I would recommend you BCN and VLC.

Also, if you finally come to VLC, we can meet.
10-Jan-2010, 09:17 PM
Nick

Yeah I noticed it was a much bigger article on wikitravel about Valencia than Seville.

I find this air shuttle very strange... fares so high and yet people can buy a lower one on your normal flights. But I suppose this locks them in to a flight and isn't very flexible, whereas the shuttle is like a go show service. Seems like a good revenue opportunity for the airline. Is there anything different about the aircraft or service on the normal flight vs air shuttle?

I was thinking BCN, VLC and MAD. I haven't decided where to leave from to jump on CX. We are starting MXP late march with a 777-300ER and loads might be a bit slack so that might be a good idea.

Was it you who mentioned in another post that it is considered rude on IB if you do not introduce yourself as staff to the flight attendants? I remember reading that somewhere here.

Yes it would be good to meet you... definitely up for meeting people from here, it's nice to see locals on the ground
11-Jan-2010, 05:14 PM
spongebue

I know I'm inherently biased, but... go to Seville, man! http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...R#>/tongue.gif

In all seriousness, it seemed like a lot of the cities I went to in Spain were all really similar, besides Barcelona and Seville. For what it's worth, I've been to Granada, Valladolid, Cordoba, and Malaga. There very well could be others that are completely different (including VLC or MAD) but that's my opinion of what I've seen. That's not to say that I didn't like those cities, they just didn't have much variety between them to me.
24-Jan-2010, 09:33 PM
Nick

Well, one of us couldn't get vacation in late March / early April, so we are going on 27 Feb. Loads to and from CDG look good, to HKG is a nightmare due to CNY. Thankfully i'm on duty travel to HKG though.

Decided on just France....

Paris > Nantes
Nantes > Bordeaux
Bordeaux > Toulouse
Toulouse > Avignon
Avignon > Reims/Epernay
Reims > Paris

All on train http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...IR#>/smile.gif Haven't spoken French since high school, but think I still remember a fair bit! http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...DIR#>/cool.gif
25-Jan-2010, 10:27 AM
mrs767er

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nick @ Jan 25 2010, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quote:

Well, one of us couldn't get vacation in late March / early April, so we are going on 27 Feb. Loads to and from CDG look good, to HKG is a nightmare due to CNY. Thankfully i'm on duty travel to HKG though.

Decided on just France....

Paris > Nantes
Nantes > Bordeaux
Bordeaux > Toulouse
Toulouse > Avignon
Avignon > Reims/Epernay
Reims > Paris

All on train http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...IR#>/smile.gif Haven't spoken French since high school, but think I still remember a fair bit! http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...DIR#>/cool.gif[/b]

Hey Nick--any chance you're gonna try a little wine on your travels?? Epernay!! Bubbles!! Reims!!! Bubbles!!!
26-Jan-2010, 05:49 AM
Nick

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mrs767er @ Jan 26 2010, 02:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quote:

Hey Nick--any chance you're gonna try a little wine on your travels?? Epernay!! Bubbles!! Reims!!! Bubbles!!![/b]

Haha that was in mind.

I booked a night in a vineyard in Epernay - http://www.champagne-domimoreau.com/pages/welcome.html

Get to Epernay in the morn, check out some of the major champagne houses (Moet, anyone?) then head to their vineyard in afternoon for a tour. Get driven to town and back for dinner, then stay at the winery. Next morn you can hire a bike and ride around their vineyards to the surrounding towns for lunch and drinks.

Sounds like a relaxing end to a holiday for me. And thankfully trains = no sublo stress! http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...#>/biggrin.gif
26-Jan-2010, 11:42 AM
Migflanker

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nick @ Jan 26 2010, 03:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quote:

Get to Epernay in the morn, check out some of the major champagne houses (Moet, anyone?) then head to their vineyard in afternoon for a tour. Get driven to town and back for dinner, then stay at the winery. Next morn you can hire a bike and ride around their vineyards to the surrounding towns for lunch and drinks.

Sounds like a relaxing end to a holiday for me. And thankfully trains = no sublo stress! http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...#>/biggrin.gif[/b]

So Nick your plan is to "check out some of the major champagne houses", tour vineyards in the afternoon, go to dinner - cheers, stay the night at the winery and get up the next morining and go bike riding. And you don't see the fatal (bouncing/sliding on the ground) flaw in this plan. http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...DIR#>/wink.gif http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...#>/biggrin.gif
26-Jan-2010, 01:07 PM
vulindlela

If you ever get to Spain, definitely check out San Sebastian (EAS).

It is so nice there!
27-Jan-2010, 06:26 AM
Nick

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Migflanker @ Jan 27 2010, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Quote:

So Nick your plan is to "check out some of the major champagne houses", tour vineyards in the afternoon, go to dinner - cheers, stay the night at the winery and get up the next morining and go bike riding. And you don't see the fatal (bouncing/sliding on the ground) flaw in this plan. http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...DIR#>/wink.gif http://www.nonrev.net/forums/style_e...#>/biggrin.gif[/b]

Haha it could be a bad idea now you mention it!

Although I did drink most of yesterday for Australia Day, and yet managed to get home at a reasonable hour (2000) and be early to work today and blow straight zeros when the airside safety officers decided to blitz us all with the brethalyser. It's doable!
28-Jan-2010, 10:26 PM
haltz

sounds delightful. As Mrs767 said, I do know SE France pretty well (wife's from there & we have a little house near Toulon), but have not recently been a tourist in any of those places. I know you dropped Marseille because it's 'dodgy' but it's a great city with a marine ambiance all ist own. Great folr walks, and for boat rides out to the Chateau d'If (of Monte Christ fame) and Isle de Frioul. Enjoy your trip!