Is United changing it’s non-rev policy? Rumors abound.
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Is United changing it’s non-rev policy? Rumors abound.
I recently filled out some online survey, seems like they want to tap into a 60,000,000 per year nonrev travel deficit they claim to spend by possibly charging a 50 dollar fee per year, or recuping some of that by charging fees for economy or vacation passes ect.....you see where the bean counters are going with that. So I flled out a survey stating my claim whatever that does. So for now, it seems like a touchy feely kind of thing, to gain some possible ideas but it all seems to boil down to bringing that 60 million nonrev fee down. They asked questions such as should supervisors travel ahead of frontline employees no matter the seniority, or spouse travel, or retiree travel.....I'm sure they are looking to shake the can a little, but nothing official yet.
I think the $50 1x year is fair. How many employees? 60,000?
Yeah, we're all expecting *something* to happen sometime soon. They don't say that the program costs $60mil (which has left a lot of people scratching their heads as to how) and ask how we'd prefer to have changes done for nothing.
As a clarification, the survey mostly had questions like "how often do you fly as a pass rider?" "how would you feel if we _______?" "place these 6 options that would make us more money in the order you prefer" and things like that. Some questions I could understand, like asking if we would prefer to go by time of checkin instead of seniority (I'm sure because that's what AA does, but that wasn't mentioned specifically) but some were really insulting ("should vacation passes be given only to commuters?" or "Should management be given priority over non-management employees" (ditto supervisors). I was also a bit upset that when the annual enrollment fee was mentioned, they said that Delta charges $50/year as an example. Conveniently, they forgot to say that Delta does not charge a fee to sit in F.
I'd be really interested in seeing the raw data as well as what the results will be. Hopefully it's not too bad.
Seems like it would only be fair to tell the employees the true cost of the program before charging them money. Nonrev travel is the reason so many people stay in an industry that changes constantly and generally pays less than other jobs. At a bare minimum I would expect to be told what my money was going to get me that was somehow better than what I've been getting. If the company is going to charge a fee, they need go give something back in exchange since this is definitely not industry standard.
"I was also a bit upset that when the annual enrollment fee was mentioned, they said that Delta charges $50/year as an example. Conveniently, they forgot to say that Delta does not charge a fee to sit in F.
I'd be really interested in seeing the raw data as well as what the results will be. Hopefully it's not too bad. "
Yes, when I made the transition to DL from US I was amazed how well they take care of emp pass travels. Upgrade everything. Even my folks got food vouchers and hotel on DTW flight. And when I commuted via CO in IAH they were the same but they requested Biz casual.
Sorry, I take that back. More like 25 bucks per year to use the nonrev travel services. No, I don't think that shake down is fair. Why change the game now? It's a shake down. It's not the principal of the money, but where do you draw the line? To save money on nonrev travel? I'd like at least an explanation as to how an empty seat filled by a nonrev traveller loses money? They quit serving food on a plane and charge for snack boxes. Why not include the money in the fare and serve meals like before? Because they jack up the ticket anyway and then sell the meals on top of that. It's never enough for the bean counters. Non rev travel is part of the fringe benefits we get for working for the airlines. Why shake us down? No. I don't like it. (I know Delta charges 25 per year service fee or so the survey said when was filling it out). In this merger, we lost our 10 year free space travel now its jacked up to 25 years. Don't get me wrong, there are more great things I like in this merger, its been way more profitable, and it's shown in my bottom line too, but DON'T SHAKE ME DOWN over nonrev travel.
If they go by way of check in instead of seniority it would highly piss me off. That's just wrong. I think someone once mentioned that someone conveniently working near the gates whereas someone having to come from home or a hanger would get bypassed by that pencil pushing geek at the gate with no seniority. Create a cluster FK at the counter. You going to play that game, lets go with rotating shifts and everything else based on seniority. (I thought it was 25 dollars Delta pays not 50 per year for service fee.)
That $50 fee can potentially give our us and dependents unlimited overseas travel in J. Yield fare for non-deps (and buddie) can also get space available in J! All for $50 + their fares/taxes. I ask our buddies to pay the fee--never an issue on this end. We are extremely grateful for a seniority-based system and I think it's well-deserved. This check-in nonsense is just that...
Of course there is a difference in paying a 50 service fee plus all other required fees versus paying that service fee which covers unlimited trips to the food bar.
Us Airways USED to charge 55 bucks a year to use the nonrev services. I can't remember the specifics though. I know the upgrade fee for first class used to be 20 bucks a leg, and 50 for international.
I sort of freaked when I filled out this thing with UA, and some of my coworkers did too. It's like "REALLY, you're asking me this????", as if I think only commuters should get vacation passes? Commuters should go to the head of the line and get positive space?? Naaaahh huh uhh.
Time of check in vs. seniority would favour the jr employees, of which I am one. I still favour seniority though.....
My guess is that they only asked the question of priority because it's done by some (well, at least one :) ) and they figured they would ask how people feel since they had the survey out anywway. It would take effort to change to TOC, which means it would take money. Unless there's a big demand for it (doubtful) I highly doubt they'd change it just 'cuz.
At NW, we did not have a $50 fee, but we had to pay for upgrades.
A return trip to London in business class would be around $500.
That same trip on DL is around $184.
So, yeah, I will pay $50 a year for that good trade off!
I don't know what to say about the boarding priorities. At WN we had first come, first served and it worked.
First come first served makes it harder to keep track. If plane leaves at 0500am and im there before flite leaves; why should a guy go b4 me just because he checked in a min or 2call early?
I have close to 20 yrs my airline. So im still on graveyards. All to do when you got hired. Do you think they would go to rotating shifts to accommodate me?
BIG QUESTION I have. If we employees pay the 50 dollar service fee, WHERE WILL THE SAVINGS GO? Where will the made up revenue money go? To airline employees in form of profit sharing or will it be cut in upper management? Or into a pool for funding new screwed up planes like the wetdream Liner.
Aren't departure taxes more or less determined by the airport itself, though? Would be interesting to take some common shared destinations on UA and DL and see how their costs compare. Then again, if mileage has anything to do with tax, it would be a tough comparison.
Yes, Bue. Tourism taxes, facility taxes, infrastructure taxes, sales taxes, tax taxes...if cost/mile changes, then it's taxed more, too! hey, let's do that test!
LHR $192
FRA $135
BCN $34
NRT $43
CUN $71
BOM $127
SYD $96
rounded off, off course.
Since there is no mileage charge for DL, no variances unless flying non-dep on yield fare, or buddy fare (add fuel surcharges)
We'll fly our non deps free domestically, then book sep INT tkt to save them a few bucks.
BOM had overnights in EU (AMS or CDG) hence taxes for 2departures/taxes
The domestic portion doesn't matter what arrival city--no mileage costs.
I did NRT/DTW--we have 8 gateway options.
I did all of my flights out of CVG so there were airport facility charges @ gateway cities on return? I don't know. I don't want to redo them all! What would be better comparison destinations? Maybe I'll ck some others like S or C America?
UPDATE. United is leaving pass travel with no changes as is. According to web site, they listened to the polls to leave things as they are. Though I may not agree 100 percent with this current system, I suppose it could always be worse, like FCFS and yearly fee. So NO CHANGES.
Yeah, I forgot to update this thread! Those questions were pretty scary, but I think those ones got a pretty resounding "hell no!" (pardon my french). You can definitely tell that there's quite a bit of give and take in priority when they made this system, but I think they've got a pretty good compromise going on for the most part. For those not aware, United has literally 10 different boarding priorities, though 1 of them (SA9, fee waived first class for those taking lowest priority) is rarely used.
I saw that SA9 fee waived thing, but didn't quite get it. I got boared reading about it somewhere in between the phrases and moved on. I usually travel with vacation passes when I go, hardly ever use anything else. You are right. United has alot of boarding priorities, flying companions, spouses, dependents, retirees, buddys not family, then there is declaring a "MUST RIDE" and OAL pax, positive space, same gender pass riders, ......You have got to dig deep on some of these charts to see where you stand prioritywise. Biggest change between our prior merger is the spouse unaccompanied travel thing at the same seniority rate as the employee and the retirees. I stick with the notion that an active employee should go ahead of a spouse of an employee unless they are being accompanied. Retirees, whom have all the time in the world to travel should not go ahead of an active employee.
But I've accepted this a while back, don't try and change the game later to degrade me further in travel priorities.
Basically, with an SA9, you (as the employee, pass riders can't do this) are saying that you're willing to risk going to the bottom of the standby list, and if there's still a seat in F by the time you get called, you won't have to pay for it. Good when there's a really open flight without too many nonrevs. I've done it a few times, and can think of 3 times that I did get F (ORD-MSP, DEN-ASE, and MCI-DEN). All but the last one I even had F to myself :)
so its good for the guy that doesn't have his 10 years for free pass travel? My pass travel is basically free in coach, but have to pay for F class unless using a vacation pass and that doesn't guarantee F either. So what if you go SA9 and there isn't anything in F? Do you get a fee waived coach/bf class?
Yeah, they'll still put you in whatever they can (assuming there is something). If nothing in F, they can still put you in Business with no charge. Or Y, if you're unlucky :)