any comments on flight crews flying other airlines for free while all other employees must purchase zed or id90 tickets
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any comments on flight crews flying other airlines for free while all other employees must purchase zed or id90 tickets
There are a lot of different agreements so I look at it this way - it is what it is. If they fly without having to purchase a ticket then that is simply a perk of their position. I can't request a jump seat either but no one will expect me to help in the event of an emergency on board so it is a trade off. A lot of airlines have counter agreements as well while I always have to purchase my tickets to fly ZED. I don't have a problem with either scenario.
Another way of looking at it, think of those revenue passengers who are appalled that we airline staff fly discounted. Or, horror, even fly up front in premium cabins
I never heard it. But who cares really? They make their living flying around living off suit cases, staying in hotels when you go home at night or day or whatever shift you work. Whats a free pass to China or Europe on another airline? If they in fact get this perk. I remember coming off trips to Mexico in the jungle, gone for a week, talking to flight attendants that never leave the airport or don't overnight in those places. They just do a turn. Whoop da doo. If anyone needs a break, let them get it.
This, I think applies only if they are in uniform (not sure) in any case I would say, good for them, they deserve it, that's all I have to say
'I would assume they are sick of flying unless they are new hires or something. I'd like to know how many of them actually ZED to other places. Probably way less than you think.
I never thought of it that way, Palms, but you are probably right. New hires fly everywhere and a lot of us old-timers fly sometimes but not nearly as often. I probably only non rev maybe 5-6 times a year these days.
5 or six times this year only? So you must have non-reve'd what? Double? Triple back in the day? You're my heroine. The biggest difference in a new hire verses old timers in flying I can think of is ENERGY. We don't go somewhere for only a day and do crazy things like fly around the world just to say we did. Because we probably all ready have. Flight attendants fly around for a living. Travel to them must be a lot like me going to hanger to go to work. They probably just don't get the satisfaction after 10 years plus flying around for a living.
An interesting observation in the small circle of cabin and cockpit crew that I know, when they do fly privately, not on duty or commuting, on vacation for example, they book confirmed tickets. For themselves and or family. And often they simply don't understand or try to understand the principles of non-reving
That may be a little like why I don't go on cruises. I've lived on board vessels for years.
Jumpseating is a perk that is available for certificated pilots, dispatchers, etc. It's a benefit of the job, just like ID90s and Zeds are benefits of being an airline employee. When "jump seating" I typically only sit in the cockpit when the flight is otherwise full in the cabin and I need to use that seat. A uniform isn't required typically, but nice attire is expected.
It's a nice benefit when my family of 5 is non-revving. We only need 4 seats instead of 5, which was the case just last week when heading to see The Mouse in SoCal.
I've had jump priveledges for the longest time with the airlines, but the FAA decided to do away with mechanics in the cockpit. They went with allowing TAXI AND RUNUP qualified technicians jumpseat priveleges and decided to do away with that too. Guess the pilots are in cahootz with the FAA. Guess the pilots got tired of competing for the jump seats, they got it all to themselves now. I dont much give a crap either way anymore. I think riding jumpseat sucks. I've used it once or twice in a pinch out in the Pacific, but no need to use it here in the states with so many other options. Funny how the rules get changed around to convenience other groups after years of protocol. And I don't know how dispatchers get to keep their jumpseats over technicians. Uh???? What sux about the industry, no wonder attitudes run sour.
Dispatchers are required by the FAA to spend 5 hrs per year in the cockpit observing operations since there is joint legal responsibility in flight planning. So, that alone would require dispatchers the ability to have access to the cockpit.
I have no idea why they would remove the option for techs to sit up front.
Sorry but that 5 hours per year in the cockpit observing WHAT? Sounds very lame but I'm not trying to pick a fight with that group as to dispatchers priverledge. Technicians have taxi, run up, plus fix the planes pilots fly. Nobody is more qualified in the cockpit aside a pilot than a technician. It is what it is. FAA makes the rules for whatever purpose. Maybe some technician ticked off a pilot while jumpseating, who knows.
Thanks for that, I wasn't aware but have been confused for a long time about why they'd do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKC
Be advised I mean no offense to you dispatchers. I'm glad they didn't take away your flight priveleges either. More power to you. I swear I'm not bitter on your part. Enjoy it while you have it. I've had the privelege before, I'm not bitter.
We techs do know its chicken shtt why we lost ours, but that was 3 years ago. I don't care really. You see, knife cuts both ways. Flight from here to Narita one day, pilot will want to know why something is wrong or not working, he may need the services of a mechanic that happens to be riding in the back. Not that I would do this or anything, but its possible he may get something like....."Sorry, put your complaint in the log book. I am not priveleged to be in the cockpit." Put it in the log book, they'll take care of it in Narita or maybe your flight dispacher riding with you on jumpseat knows a trick or two. Good luck."
Interesting how these procedures vary. Here in Europe, and elsewhere I believe other than the USA, who gets a jump seat is at the captain's discretion. And a life saver for many a non-rev on full flights. A request is made to the captain if all the standbys cannot be accommodated on standard passenger seats. Some captains prefer only flight crew, or those with experience flying jump, others are quite flexible. I've flown jump both cabin and cockpit on a couple occasions. Worst was a 9 hour transatlantic flight. Not a comfortable experience but the crew were great to me, in spite of the DYKWIA gold card passenger seated opposite complainng that I was taking up his precious leg space. One exception is for flights to and from the USA and the UK where only uniformed certified plots are allowed to fly in the cockpit, at least within their airpace
*sigh*... I should go to Germany just so I can try to get a seat in the cockpit jumpseat. I know it's uncomfortable, but on a relatively short flight, it would be well worth it for the experience. Now that I think about it, I wish my AB PMI-FRA flight on an A330 was just a little more full (assuming the crew was cool).
I don't think this is a who knows more about the airplane issue. Dispatchers are trained in aircraft systems, but obviously know far less about them than MX does. The airplane wouldn't move from A to B without MX. All three groups are vital in keeping an airline running.Quote:
Originally Posted by 29palms
The reason dispatchers observe cockpit operations is simply because it improves the dx'ers knowledge/experience on how what you do affects those on the other end of the release, and vice versa.
When I am creating a flight release, selecting altitudes, routes, planning fuel loads, making enroute changes, sending ACARS messages, etc, how does that affect the flight crew? What phases of flight are the most demanding for them? What is the most effective means to communicate something important? Is the current iteration of the release the best possible, or are we burning 10 extra pages of paper that are unnecessary? These are all questions that can be answered by sitting with the crew while they actually do their job. Likewise, when pilots come sit in dispatch with us, they can see that we have more than just their flight on our desks, and that if we don't immediately answer them, it's more likely that we're taking care of another problem, not just reading a newspaper. It's intended to improve the communication from both sides.
I can't speak as to why the FAA removed your ability to ride up front.
Hey SKC, thanks for the insight. Really, I have no issue with dispatchers flying up in the cockpit. All I can really say about not flying in cockpit anymore, is that I'm glad I at least had that opportunity to do it many times. Seriously, I'm not bitter for you. Nothing gets me higher than to get to another country and walk around, visit new and interesting places. I never got super stoked in riding in the cockpit. You have to sit there like a bump on the log and keep your mouth shut. Interesting once or twice to see the pilots in action but that notoriety wore out on me. The only real adventure in flying for me would be to try some hand-gliding or para sailing. I'd much rather sit in a seat in the back or a FA's jump seat. I am not totally aware of all the dispatcher duties, what kind of training is involved, and what they bring to the table in education for hiring in as a dispatcher. I'd be lying if I did. The only thing that grabbed my goat a little is the sneaky way the Feds and pilots went about doing it. They really stunk up the joint.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frapos
I believe it used to be a lot of the Captain's discretion for anyone riding in the cockpit but thanks to 9/11, the game changed a little, no, a lot more. Even wives and girl friends would fly in cockpit.
Education wise varies quite a bit from person to person initially. You have to attend a certified school for a (typically) 6-8 week course to obtain your dispatch certificate. That's the easy part. Once you have the certificate, and get a job, (at least here at SWA) there's two months of classroom training, followed by anywhere from 3-9 months of OJT. There's a wide range because you're hired as an asst. dispatcher which performs the asst duties, plus the additional OJT with a trainer on the desk. You stay in that role until there's an opening that would allow you to upgrade.Quote:
Originally Posted by 29palms
(I'll post the duties after I take the kids to school. There's waiting on me. :cool:)
Thanks for sharing that SKC. I hope you enjoy your job and find it fulfilling. Be safe, hope your family is all doing good.