Thread: unionization

I did a poll on this and no one replied

I am curious to know what the non union Delta folk's experiences have been, and if they think the union is needed - and why or why not?

Not trying to to instigate anything, just genuinely curious!

I am mixed about Unions.
I have been in the Union and if I had stayed in it, I would still be at my previous job, making over $20 an hour. I lost my Union membership when I took a promotion and was terminated "at will" a few months after.
They do offer protection from the whole "at will" employment, which means a company can fire you at anytime, for any reason.
They also protect workers who are pieces of garbage. I saw an employee sleeping in the break room once, while his flight was on the ground. The Supervisor asked him to wake up and go out to his flight. He told the Supervisor off and proceeded to sleep. They fired him on the spot. About a month or two later, the employee was back on the job with all the pay he had lost while terminated. That is not right.
The number one issue is pay. The company does not pay you out of the goodness in their hearts and a Union will surely get you better pay and benefits.
Overall, I like Unions. However, I believe they are a dying breed.

This is an issue that many people are hesitant to discuss because many people feel very strongly about it. That is another reason that union elections need to be secret ballot. Apparently there is legislation in motion that would take away secret ballot union elections. I absolutely disagree with such legislation. Imagine if at the polls they didn't give you an "I voted" sticker, they gave you an "I voted for McCain/Obama" sticker. You'd have alot of wrangling among the voters(more than current, anyway).

Anyway, my personal feeling is that unions started off with the proper intentions. I feel that unions did the majority of the work in the past to ensure better worker protection, work hour rules, etc. But I feel that unions may have outserved their purpose a little. If you want to make $25+ per hour, you can either go to college, or join a strong enough union. I've seen workers with not even a GED making more than college graduates. The best place to see this is the automotive industry. The unions have "stong armed" the companies almost to bankruptcy. It's very possible that my tax money will go to subsidize those wages with this next proposed bailout.

The employment at will is a tough one too. I recently lost half of my job. If I were in a union, that probably would not have happened; however, if I was still full-time, my company would be in a much less competitive position to keep it's contract locally. We are in a race to the bottom with a bottom dwelling contractor. I could hold on to full-time for a little longer, and then lose my job entirely, or bide my time and hopefully get it back in a few months.

I think that unions and management are to combative. I think it's a good thing for all the employees to get together and talk with the boss and discuss any issues. I think it's a bad thing to "strong arm" the company or the employees. I've seen union employees in a contract dispute sabotaging aircraft(draining batteries) such that the next departure will be 4+ hours delayed. I've seen union employees sabotaging lavs that in the downline station, a non-union employee gets the contents dumped on him/herself upon opening the valve. Just like Vulindlela, I've seen the wrong employees being protected by unions. I think in general, absolute general terms, it seems to discourage hard work. Whether you work hard and are a great employee, or are sleeping on the job, any advancement/pay raise/ etc. is laid out in a contract and you will not get ahead or behind by your actions.

I think my company benefits by having union competitors by having the flexibility they do not. I think the employees benefit because the company remains competitive with union pay/advancement scales. I know that DL employees make more money than NW employees, and DL just got a pay raise, and DL pays no union dues. I don't know the details as far as benefits, but I don't work for DL.

Jumper, you have a response.

But in actual practice in the workplace, these things need to be secret ballot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoAvs19 @ Nov 18 2008, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

This is an issue that many people are hesitant to discuss because many people feel very strongly about it. That is another reason that union elections need to be secret ballot. Apparently there is legislation in motion that would take away secret ballot union elections. I absolutely disagree with such legislation.

Jumper, you have a response.

But in actual practice in the workplace, these things need to be secret ballot.[/b]

Thanks ColoAvs - I appreciate your honesty.

To be PERFECTLY honest, I&#39;m incredibly torn. I know the Union has helped me in one very difficult and petty incident, and yet by the same token, the knowledge that for the next several years I&#39;m always going to be getting the dregs of everything because of my hire date. I won&#39;t even touch the pay raise issue, but you know it&#39;s a painful spot for all of us.

*sigh*

We&#39;ll see....

I&#39;m not a technician, I&#39;m a ramper. I routinely service lavs. You&#39;ve got it pretty much down pat Palms. You&#39;ve got the access panel, within is the blue juice fill port, the dump handle, and the waste valve(opening, whatever). You first open the access panel(of course), and then open the outer flap(and get the hell out of the way). You then hook up the hose, and then open the inner flap with the little handle next to it. You then pull the T handle and the SH!T FLIES.

Now, I&#39;ve had plenty of lavs where the T handle was inop, the actual valve stuck open, but the handle stowed and thus able to close the access panel. I&#39;ve also seen lavs with the inner flap not secured. If both the "sh!t valve" and the inner flap were inop, all the "contents" is right behind that outer flap. That must be opened before you can hook up a hose. You&#39;d jump out of the way, but it splashes(I know, it happened to me ONE TIME). That was an accident, I&#39;m confident in that. But one could flush a rag or something, leaving the "sh!t valve" cracked open, and leave open the inner flap. You then have a nice surprise.

Now, I&#39;ve not actually seen this happen, but I&#39;ve heard multiple accounts of multiple incidents involving a local outsourced ground handling company.

I&#39;ve also seen it where the previous station would insert the "donut", lock it in place and THEN pull the T handle so that the lav would dump behind the donut. Not a very good surpise for the next station.

As for the seniority thing, I think the only reward you can have for your years of loyal service IS your seniority. DL&#39;s pay topped out at 10 1/2 years, so that&#39;s not much of an argument. I spent 33+ years with the company and rarely got any respect from all the junior folks, even though we spent those years making it the airline it was and NOW it&#39;s their turn.